This question is a very interesting one, and one which we cannot afford to fail to address as it is a matter of life and death to know and understand the answer.

We could discuss what we might like the answer to be. We could think about what theological scholars or the clergy think about this topic. We could project forth our own hopes and ideas on the topic – but such human thinking would be useless for there is only one authority which can answer this question for us, the Bible, the word of the living God which is able to “make us wise unto salvation” (2 Timothy 3:15).

God does not lie

Of course, God can forgive who He wishes to – but with most questions of this nature, it’s not really a question of what God can do (as all things are possible with God) but what God has revealed He will do. Therefore it would not be appropriate for any mere mortal to seek to answer on God’s behalf. The only suitable course of action would be to seek out what God Himself has told His creation about this subject.

Anything is possible for God but one thing – and that is to lie. We are clearly told in the scriptures that God does not lie (Titus 1:2) and so we can have absolute confidence in what He has decreed.

What does the Bible reveal?

With that in mind these verses shed some light on our question:

“The gospel… is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth” Romans 1:16

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark 16:15-16

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”
Ephesians 2:8

“For we are saved by hope…” Romans 8:24

“I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you… By which also ye are saved” 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

“If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:9

“(Christ will) present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” Col 1:23-24

It seems clear therefore that God’s word declares that to believe in the true gospel is vital for salvation. We have to have a faith and that means believing in a set of doctrines. Having a true understanding of The Truth of the Bible is the mechanism by which we can become ready for baptism into Christ and we must continue to believe this. To suggest otherwise is to doubt these words which God has caused to be written.

This may not be the answer we want, but we must humble ourselves and listen to the still small voice of Gods word, for as the prophet Isaiah by inspiration records:

“…But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word.” Isaiah 66:2

Christadelphians believe they have found this truth and it is summarised in their statement of faith.

Time is running out

The verse above tell us then that if we reject the true gospel message of the Bible, God will not forgive us and give us the gift of eternal life in His Kingdom. This is quite a powerful thing to come to terms with – especially when we consider the majority of Christendom believe three key doctrines which are contrary to Bible teaching (The immortal soul, The Trinity and an immortal Devil). The Bible tells us that these apostasies are not acceptable in Gods eyes. In Acts we read this sobering verse:

“Because God hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge theworld in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.” Acts 17:31

The day of judgment for this world is fast approaching and therefore the quest for truth must be an urgent one else we will find ourselves on the wrong side in that day.

On the other hand however, we also know that there is no position from which we can’t repent before Christ’s return, seek forgiveness and be found acceptable in God’s mercy. This must be done on Gods terms however and not our own. It must be done on the basis of that unique gospel message found in His word. Therefore, in the days that remain we must seek to stay true to the faith once delivered unto the saints, guarding it and upholding it and warning those who do not have it.

If you do not have this Truth dear reader, if you do not understand the gospel which is wrapped up in the promises of the Old Testament which God gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob  (Galatians 3:8, 2 Peter 1:4) please study your Bible, pray and seek out this knowledge. This website endeavours to help all those seeking truth and it is hopefully an aid to those on such a quest. You may find this article on “The Gospel” helpful as a starting point.

We have examined in earlier posts on this website that the Catholic Church has tried for many years to keep the knowledge of the Bible suppressed so it can excerpt it’s authority upon the masses. With the 400 year anniversary of the King James Version now upon us it is worth considering the history of Bible translations and the authority of the scriptures – especially when considering which Bible to use on a day to day basis. In the following 9 part documentary we have clear and simple evidence of the strategies of some to undermine that authority. The documentary is called “Catholic Church – Mother Of Corrupt Bible Versions”. Be informed and be warned:

1. William Tyndale & King James

2. The Jesuits

3. Wescott & Hort & The Revised Version

4. The Flood of New Translations

5. Codex Siniaticus and Vaticanus

6. The Nestle’s Text

7. The Counter Reformation

8. The Emergent Church

9. The Power of Gods Word

For further information on the authority of the Bible please read this article: Gods Word – The Bible

The following x6 videos have been produced by the Christadelphians to give some really good reasons to believe in the Bible. Add to these some of the amazing prophecies that occur in the Bible and one will realise that a belief in the Bible is not a case of having a “blind faith” but a logical “faith” based upon fact and reason.

1. Archaeology

2. Biology

3. The Law of Moses

4. The Manuscripts

5. Historical Accuracy

6. Horticulture

These videos have been produced as part of the Bible for Life project – many thanks goes to those involved for all their hard work.

We are pleased to present the video of the ‘Bible and the Papacy’ talks which were given at Nottingham University on the 17th of September 2010 to coincide with the Popes visit to the UK.

Lecture 1 – Is the Papacy the head of the church?

The Bible and the Papacy – Is the Pope the true head of the church? from thegospeltruth on Vimeo.

Lecture 2 – Bible teaching or Church tradition?

The Bible and the Papacy – Bible Teaching or Church Tradition from thegospeltruth on Vimeo.

Audio

An audio Podcast fo these lectures is available for download here

At this time of year many people will have been going to nativity plays in churches and schools. Many people will think briefly upon the impact of the birth and life of Jesus Christ. Many will sing, read and hear about how the baby born in Bethlehem was to be a great King but few will understand it’s true significance or the scope of what this truly means. In this article we take a quick look at the true meaning of the kingship of Christ and his purpose in Gods plan for the earth.

Christ – “the king of the Jews”

“Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.” Matthew 2:2

We see here that Jesus Christ was born to be the King of the Jews. The wise men from the east were awaiting his birth – probably from the teachings of the Jewish prophet Daniel who, although captured and taken to Babylon, rose through the ranks to become an important and influential figure in the Babylonian empire which was situated to the east of Israel. Jesus Christ though was never accepted by the Jewish nation as their king. When they crucified him they were angry with Pilot for his words which were placed at the top of the cross:

“And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin. Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.” John 19:19-21

Did Jesus Christ fail then if he was born to be ‘king of the jews’? No he did not as we shall see.

The Angels Message to Mary

The well known words of the angel to Mary hold some profound prophetic words:

“And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.” Luke 1:30-33

We have here then a prophecy that Jesus Christ would be given the “throne of his father David”. We read that when this throne is given to him his kingdom shall have “no end”. What does this mean?

The Kingdom of God in the Past – the ‘throne of David’

To understand the prophecy of the angel an understanding of the Old Testament must be obtained. God’s kingdom was in fact the ancient Kingdom of Israel. We can see this from the following passages of scripture:

• The nation of Israel were God’s “kingdom” and he was their “king” allowing them to inhabit “His land” – the land of Israel (see Isaiah 43:15, 44:6 , Exodus 19:5-6, Psalm 114:1-2, Ezekiel 36:5).
• Israel eventually wanted a man to be their king (1 Sam 8:7). These kings were only ruling on behalf of God (2 Chron 9:8).
• In Chronicles we read king Davids words:
  “And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.” 1 Chron 28:5
• David and his son Solomon were therefore rulers of the ‘Kingdom of God’ in the past.

These facts serve as a key which unlocks major parts of the New Testiment as we shall start to see as we continue.

The Kingdom of God Temporally Overturned

In Ezekiel we read a prophecy against the last of the line of the Kings of this Kingdom. This is what God said to king Zedekiah:

“…and thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.” Ezekiel 21:25-27

So we see that the Kingdom of God was only to be overturned for a limited time “until he comes whose right it is”. There is then to be a ‘coming one’ who will have the ‘kingdom’ given to him – that Kingdom which King David of old sat on a throne governing.

There are plenty of prophecies in the old testament about the future revival of this past Kingdom. Consider these:

“And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.” Isaiah 16:5

“In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:” Amos 9:11

“And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.” Zech 2:12

The message to Mary unlocked

With that Old Testament background we can revisit and better understand that message from the angel to Mary. Remember it was said of Christ that:

“…and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David” Luke 1:32

This was the ancient throne of the Kingdom of Israel which was over throne as we saw in Ezekiel 21:27. That throne that King David of old sat on. A throne which governed a literal territory on earth. That throne is to be given to Jesus Christ and when it is given to him it will last forever. This was indeed promised to King David .

“And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever… And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12-17

So this seed would do these things “before David” (a resurrection from the dead) and that this future descendant would reign forever (e.g. be immortal!). The New Testiment opens with words which hint at this:

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” Matthew 1:1

We see then the importance of understanding who David was and the fact that Jesus Christ was his descendant and therefore heir to the throne of the Kingdom of God in the past.

We read in the angels message to Mary:

“…he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever“ Luke 1:33

This links in with the promise to David. The “house of Jacob” is a term which simply means the descendants of Jacob. Jacobs name was changed to Israel in the Bible and he is the father of the Jewish nation. So this king will specifically be the “King of the Jews” and rule over the ancient but literal Kingdom of Israel just as King David of old did.

When does Christ become King?

Some people believe that Jesus is a king now but he has not been yet given the throne of the Kingdom of Israel. He is currently set down at the right hand of Gods throne which is different to the throne which will be set up when Jesus finally is given it upon the earth (see Rev 3:21 for proof that there are two distinct thrones in this respect). Jesus has not yet restored the Kingdom to Israel yet as we can see when the apostles asked him this question:

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” Acts 1:6

This question was asked after the death and resurrection of Christ and proves that it was their ernest expectation that the Kingdom of Israel would once again be restored with Jesus Christ as King. However ‘then was not the time’ for Jesus replies:

“And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.”Acts 1:7

The return of Christ to establish Gods Kingdom
The great message of the Bible is that Jesus will return from heaven to establish the Kingdom of Israel. This was the promise of the angels to those apostles who saw Jesus go to heaven. This is what they said to them:

“…while they (the apostles) looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts 1:10-11

So Jesus is to return to restore this Kingdom which will eventually grow and take over the whole earth (see Daniel 2). This Kingdom will be like the Kingdom of God in the past, it will have a righteous King (Christ) a Capital city (Jerusalem or Zion), a law etc. and it’s influence will grow until all nations have come into subjection to it. We read of this in various places but here are a few passages to consider:

“And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” Daniel 2:44

“They shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all nations shall be gathered unto it; neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.” Jer. 3:17

“And I will make… her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.” Micah 4:7-8

The Kingdom of God in the past then will be re-established with Christ as it’s king – but at this future time ALL nations will be in subjection to it. This Kingdom will bring peace to the earth and all peoples will know about God and want to please Him. We are given a few glimpses in the Bible of what this wonderful kingdom on earth will be like:

There will be such benefits for its citizens such as have never been seen before:

• A peaceful safe existence (Isaiah 2:4, 32:17, 65:21-22, Zechariah 8:4-5)
• A “righteous” system of justice (Isaiah 11:3-4, 32:1)
• Good health and long life (Isaiah 35:5,6, 65:20)
• A healthy earth which will produce an abundance of food (Joel 3:18, Amos 9:13, Psalm 72:16, Zechariah 8:12, Isaiah 35:1, Ezekiel 36:34-35)

In this amazing Kingdom we are told that “…the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” Isaiah 11:9

Your part in God’s Kingdom

The Bible holds within it a wonderful message of hope. It offers you and I a chance to be part of this future Kingdom which Christ is coming to establish. When one understands the gospel message which contains the “things concerning the kingdom of God” and the “name of Jesus Christ” and is baptized (Acts 8:12) this opens the way to a place in that Kingdom on earth.

How different the message of the Bible is then with what most people associate with Christianity and the birth of Christ. His birth was miraculous and amazing and we have only looked at one aspect of Christ role in Gods purpose. However we hope we have shown you that there is more to this subject then stories. There is more to it than what even the churches around proclaim. We encourage you to pick up your Bible and read it, and discover it’s true and wonderful message for yourself. Why leave Jesus in the manger until the following year? Get to know him and his purpose through Gods word, the Bible.

Other articles which might interest you:

• The Kingdom of God
• The Promise to David

Many ‘Christians’ and non religious people at this time of year, all ‘join together’ to pull out all the stops to celebrate ‘Christmas’. One of the oddest customs is to to bring a tree in from the cold outside and set it up in the warmth of a living room. The tree is then decorated with gold tinsel and presents. On the top of the tree often a gold shimmering star is placed and under the tree people put presents for all their family.

Is the Christmas Tree Biblical?

It might surprise you to know that the Christmas tree is in the Bible:

“Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” Jeremiah 10:1-4

This passage was given to Gods chosen people to warn them to not learn the way of the heathen around them – to NOT make Christmas trees! It’s a reference to the pagan practices of the false religions that were around Israel. God’s people were supposed to of been separate from these pointless, vain and fruitless practices.

Paganism and Christmas

Just this one simple area of the customs of Christmas expose its true origin. It is not really a true ‘Christian’ festival – but rather a compromise with paganism. The ancient pagans believed that there was a strong connection with evergreen trees and fertility. They decorated trees as an act of worship to their gods – they left presents under the trees as sacrifices. When the Roman Empire switched from being Pagan to being ‘Christian’ these customs were simply re-branded as being Christian. They were no such thing!

Although no-one today will be considering they are worshiping a pagan god as they decorate their tree, the truth of the matter is that this is what the practice originally was intended to be all about. Why would followers of the Bible want to be part of such a practice? Why would we want to blur the lines between Gods word and the pagan practices of the world at large? If we did not have society telling us this was what we were supposed to be doing would we do it? To be an independent Bible based thinker you must have an answer for these questions and to be a follower of Jesus and the Bible you must have a Biblical reason. I leave it to you to find one!

Much more could be said about the pagan origins of Christmas but this year – as you see all the Christmas tree’s spring up around you consider God’s words to his true followers: “Learn not the way of the heathen“…

As we read in Peter:

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9

Jesus’ teaching about being “saved”

Jesus says a very profound thing to his disciples in Mark 16:

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark 16:15-16

To be in a position to be “saved” therefore one must believe in the gospel and be baptised. We have already considered baptism in previous posts and articles but in this article we will look at what the gospel consists of and what it is we need to believe.

Clearly belief is extremely important and therefore what we believe is something we should all consider. In Ephesians Paul writes to the believers and says:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” Ephesians 2:8

So the principle is that we cannot save ourselves and that being ‘saved’ will be a gift of God. How are we saved? Through faith. In what? The gospel as Jesus has told us.

What is the gospel?

We have a whole section on this in the Bible Teaching part of the website so head over there if you want some detail. In simple terms the gospel consists of the covenants of promise that God has given to man and their associated doctrines. Consider this verse:

“According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” 2 Peter 1:3-4

So by the knowledge we have in the promises of God we have an opportunity to be saved from sin and death and be able to partake of immortality in Gods grace when Jesus returns to the earth to establish God’s kingdom. These promises are extremely important and they have to do with the nation of Israel – Paul tells us this in his letter to the Ephesians:

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh…  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”
Ephesians 2:11-13

So the Ephesian believers, now baptised into Christ had become a part of the covenants of promise. They were no longer aliens from the things of Israel. The things which had been promised to that nations fathers. What things? Well to understand that question you would have to study the promises of God to Israel and in particular to the fathers of Israel, Abraham Isaac, Jacob and King David.

There are three main covenants outlined in the Bible and each have associated doctrines:

1. Genesis 3 – promise of the seed which would destroy the serpent power, associated doctrine: atonement in Christ.

2. Genesis 12-22 – promises, to Abraham, associated doctrines: resurrection, eternal life,  forgiveness of sins,  Israel to be a great nation,  atonement in Christ.

3. 2 Samuel 7 – promises to David, associated doctrines: Christ on the throne,  Kingdom of Israel restored on earth,  resurrection,  Christ’s second coming.

In Galatians Paul tells us that the Gospel was preached to the ancients of old and in particular was preached to Abraham in the promises from God:

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” Galatians 3:8

He goes on to say that all those who are “in Christ” – who have believed in the gospel and been baptised based upon that belief, are heirs of such promises:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” Galatians 3:28-29

In Acts 8 we have described to us what constitutes the gospel:

“…when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12

So then the gospel is the good news of the promises of God and how they will and are outworked in the Lord Jesus Christ and how we can be associated with them. There are two parts “the name of Jesus Christ” and “the Kingdom of God”.

Christadelphians believe their statement of faith is a summery of the gospel and associated doctrines. You can view this here » Obviously as time has gone on much error has crept into “christianity” and therefore we require more clarification on certain doctrines than maybe the apostles of old did. For example the doctrine of the “Trinity” was not then known in a Christian guise and therefore the apostles would not of had to labour the unity of God.

Because the statement of faith summarises the things required to be saved we uphold and guard the things expressed within it passionately. Our beliefs define us as a community and those not believing the things we profess to believe are asked to leave as they are not Christadelphians anymore. Because they have moved away from the gospel they do not subscribe to what Christadelphians believe in (see this principle being outworked by the Apostle Paul in Acts 19:8-9). We call the different aspects of the gospel “first principles”. The first principles never change and a knowledge of them makes you accountable to baptism. Once baptised you need to show your faith in works (James 2:18). Studying the scriptures and thinking upon them allows your knowledge of Gods principles to grow enabling you to help overcome sin and manifest God in your character in some small way. However once you understand the gospel there will not be new fundamental truths revealed to you – anything new will build upon the foundation already laid in the gospel (Ephesians 2:20).

Is a person who does not accurately know the gospel able to be saved?

No – the Bible tells us we need to have faith in the gospel to be saved as we have seen in Mark 16:15-16. If what the person thinks is not a true reflection of the gospel as revealed in the word then they cannot believe in the gospel or been baptised correctly into that gospel. According to the words of Christ in the reference quoted, they cannot be saved.

Many may say this is a bit of a legalistic way of looking at things. God can save who he wants they will say. This is a fair point but God does not lie. Therefore he will not go back on what he has revealed in His word. The word sets out the process for salvation based upon a belief in the gospel.

When will we be saved?

It’s clear then that we need to understand the gospel, believe it, be baptized into that belief to be in a position to be saved. When will the “saving” take place? Those who have this knowledge and have been baptised are in a sense “saved” now as they are in that position. However they still sin and still die and so the ultimate “saving” comes in the future. Consider Jesus’ words: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.The “saving” will be done at the same time as the “condemning” – this will be determined by the judgment which will be carried out when Jesus returns to the earth:

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom” 2 Timothy 4:1

See also Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10. At the judgment those who have known the gospel will be judged by Christ to see what they have done with that knowledge. They will either be “saved” or “condemned”. We can see from this reference in Peter who mentions that it is at the judgement when we will eventually be saved:

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” 1Peter 4:17

So then it is very important that we understand and uphold the principles of the gospel if we are to be “saved” in that day. I urge you therefore to study your Bible to gain a better understanding of the promises God has revealed in His word. You may also find some helpful articles in the Bible Teaching part of this website.

Background

I was contacted a few months ago by a lady who I had met at a friends wedding. We had got chatting about religion and had an interesting discussion about the Bible. I believe God is one single entity and do not believe in the “Trinity” (that God is three people in one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit) – this became a small subject of debate between us.

The Trinitarian Questions

The lady wrote in to this website with the following:

“Hi Matt, I enjoyed reading your blog and debating these issues with my husband.

However given that what you argue about Christ’s deity is based on selected verses from scripture, what do you think about these verses? To me, they say that Jesus is also God:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth,” (John 1:1,14).
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am,”(John 8:58). With, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you,” (Exodus 3:14).
“For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,” (Col. 2:9).

Also, if he was not also God, why did the devil, when he was tempting him in the wilderness, basically say to him- “i know you have the power to do anything you wanted, to make this rock into bread, to get an army of angels to rescue you, to rule over all the land”. This to me says that the devil knew he was in some way godly in nature.

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this. If you accept all scripture as truth how do you account for these verses? Look forward to your thoughts! “

The reply

I replied with the following and haven’t had an answer back yet but have posted here to see if other people might be able to answer the challenging questions for Trinitarians at the end. I hope this is useful to you in your studies:

First of all – yes I (as well as you it seems) accept the Bible as the authority on this subject (2 Tim 3:16)- and if we start from that basis it would not be presumptuous of me to say we need to look at the whole of the Bible to establish our understanding of its teaching. So – what I will hope to do in this reply is firstly answer your questions about the verses you have presented but also present you with some verses for consideration.

This subject is of upmost importance for us to get to the bottom of. As we read in John 17:3: “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” Therefore a true appreciation of who Jesus is, is a matter of life or death. Only one position can be correct – either Jesus is part God in the Trinity or he is not.

A reply

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth,” (John 1:1,14)

1. If you read this verse carefully you will note that the word was with God from the beginning. Jesus was not the word. He was “the word made flesh” in v14. The greek word for “word” is “logos” and is used in the Bible to express the divine intention or purpose (you can see this by looking at all its instances in a concordance).

2. I’m no Greek expert but I’m reliably told that the word “logos” does not denote a personality – e.g. when it says “all things were made by him” it could equally translated as “through it everything was done” (as the Diaglott does). Even if the word did denote a personality and therefore we could translate it as “him” then we should not rule out personification (e.g. God’s purpose -logos – is “him” not Jesus – like wisdom is described as a person in Proverbs 8:22-23). This is in complete harmony with scripture Psalm 33:6+9 – the word of God created the heavens – see also 2 Peter 3:5-7 where the same greek word is used.

With the above 2 points in mind then I can’t see this proves that Jesus is God or existed before he was born. The word and intentions of God were there from creation. That intention became a reality when Jesus was born.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am,”(John 8:58). With, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you,” (Exodus 3:14).

1. Again if we read this carefully we will see that it is a reference to the fact that Jesus was in the Divine plan before Abraham existed. The context of this verse is that the Jews had claimed Abraham was their Father (v39). Jesus responds by saying that that accounts for nothing because in effect he was in the Divine mind before Abraham. See 1 Peter 1:20.

2. The words “I am” are not an allusion to the Divine name as you have hinted at. God did not in fact call himself “I am” in Exodus 3:14. The Hebrew word “I am” in Exodus 3:14 is “EHYEH” which, I am informed, literally translated means “I will be” (see RSV margin). It has a future tense and has been translated wrongly. So Jesus then by saying “I am” could not be quoting Exodus – otherwise he would of said “I will be”. Even if this was a quote (which it isn’t) this would not be proof that Jesus was God.

3. The same Greek phrase is used by Christ in v24 and is used of the blind man of 9:9 – these are clearly not references to Exodus but the same case could be argued as you are arguing here.

So I’m not sure these verses prove that Jesus was in fact God either when examined closely.

“For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,” (Col. 2:9).

1. The word “fullness” (greek “pleroma”) is used in Ephesians 3:19 which states “…to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.” So we see here that we can be “filled” with God. Therefore to be “full” of the Deity does not mean that one is Deity.

2. This is speaking of Christ reflecting God’s character which he did to the full. Morally he did this in his life (John 1:14 and John 14:9) and he was filled physically with God’s immortality when he was resurrected.

Also, if he was not also God, why did the devil, when he was tempting him in the wilderness, basically say to him- “i know you have the power to do anything you wanted, to make this rock into bread, to get an army of angels to rescue you, to rule over all the land”. This to me says that the devil knew he was in some way godly in nature.

Jesus is tempted in 3 ways in this account (Matthew 4). To turn stone into bread (v3), To test God and commit suicide (v6) and to take the Kingdoms of man (v 9). All of these things Jesus had the power to do as God had just given given him the Holy Spirit (God’s power) – see the previous chapter Matt 3:16+17, the Holy Spirit had led Jesus to this trial (v1) in which Jesus was tested to see how he would use this new power given to him).

The question was not in effect as to IF he could do these things but the MOTIVE behind them. Each temptation had a motive which was against God’s will and so Jesus declined to do them by answering the tempter with scripture each time.

Personally I don’t see this as proof that Jesus was in fact God – He had been given God’s power.

If you are interested in listening to a Podcast by someone’s views on this topic who used to be an evangelical but changed to become a Christadelphian – head over to: http://e2c.podbean.com/2010/06/14/is-jesus-the-god-of-the-old-testament/
The Podcast title is “Is Jesus The God Of The Old Testament?” and I think it’s excellent. I hope you might find it useful.

A few things to consider

Ok, I hope you are still with me and my answers to your verses make sense. Now, in the spirit of fairness, I’d like to switch from the defensive to the offensive and ask you to consider/answer the following:

1. Basic differences between God and Jesus
God cannot be tempted: James 1:13 – but Jesus was tempted: Hebrews 4:15
God cannot die: Psalms 90:2 but Jesus died.
God cannot be seen: John 1:18 but Jesus was seen by hundreds.

2. Jesus is a separate person to God
Jesus is a mediator God is not: 1 Timothy 2:5 – they are clearly two different beings.
Jesus was to ascend to his God: John 20:17 – how could he do this if he was God?
Jesus had an independent will from his Father: Matthew 26:39
Acts 4:24 – the disciples pray to God. verse 27 they mention Jesus who God had annointed. They were not praying to a Trinity.

3. Jesus is not co-equal with the Father
God is the head of Christ so they can’t be equal – 1 Cor 11:3
Jesus says the Father is greater than him – John 14:28
Christ is subject to the Father: 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
How can Jesus and the Father be the same person if they have a different hierarchy?!

4. The Old Testament God
To believe that God is a Trinity would suggest that God deceived the old Testiment Jews by not revealing His “Triune” nature. For example see: Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:8, Isaiah 45:5, Isaiah 46:9. God reveals Himself as being one – the only God. If actually God is not one but three He must have only given them a partial truth. Were the Jews told to love a God which they apparently didn’t understand? The Jews still believe that God is one. If understanding Jesus is a matter of Salvation (John 17:3) then why was it not revealed to the Jews? This just doesn’t add up to me. I hope you might be able to explain.

Interestingly the word “Trinity” never appears in the Bible – why is that?

I could go on but this should be enough for the moment. For me the idea of the Trinity doesn’t add up when we consider the whole teaching of the Bible. Jesus was a man, the son of God, who was born with the same problem as us: e.g. he had a nature which was prone to sin. He was the only one who has overcome that nature and therefore destroyed it. Because of that God rose him from the dead and gave him immortality. In His mercy God will resurrect and give immortality to all those who believe the Gospel, have associated themselves with Jesus in baptism and are found acceptable at the judgment seat and they will then live forever in God’s future kingdom upon the earth. This is why it is essential to understand who Jesus is and what he has done for us.

The Catholic Church, amongst others, teach a doctrine called “The Perpetual virginity of Mary”. This is defined in the Catholic Encylopedia as: “The dogma which teaches that the Blessed Mother of Jesus Christ was a virgin before, during, and after the conception and birth of her Divine Son.” So if this were true then Mary could not have no other children other than Jesus Christ.

Mary had other sons apart from Jesus

“…And she brought forth her firstborn son…” Luke 2 v.7

The term “firstborn” implies that there was more to come. Otherwise it would  surely say “her one and only son”. There were indeed other sons and daughters which Mary had. These were the literal brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ:

“Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?” Matthew 13:55-56

“These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.” Acts 1:14

So then – Jesus had brothers and sisters. If we read the word of God then at face value we can see the error in believing in the “Perpectual virginity” of Mary.

Some argue that these passages refer to the cousins of Jesus or half siblings through another marriage of Joseph. These are flimsy arguments and can readily be disproved beyond any shadow of a doubt.

“I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.” Psalm 69:8-9

This Psalm is prophetic of Jesus. We know this because it is quoted as such in John 2:17 after Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple we read:

“And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.” John 2:17

The “me” then in Psalm 69:8-9 pointed to Jesus Christ. The one who would be alien to his “mothers children”.

Its absolutely clear then that his mother, Mary, had children.

A normal married life

Mary and Joseph lived a normal married life as husband and wife. We can see this clearly by looking at this verse:

“And (Joseph) knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” Matthew 1:25

So after Jesus was born then Joseph did indeed know Mary his wife – proving that the Bible teaches that Mary was not a “perpetual” virgin.

1. In baptism we obtain the forgiveness of our sins:

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…” Acts 2:38

“Brother Saul… why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins” Acts 22:16
“baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” 1 Peter 3:21

2. Baptism is one of the conditions of salvation as taught by Jesus:

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned” Mark 16:16

3. All believers of the gospel in the Bible were baptized:

“Then they that gladly received his (Peters) word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.” Acts 2:41

“Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized… And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” Acts 10:48

“…and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.” Acts 18:8

“…when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12

“And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart… And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” Acts 8:37-38

“And immediately… he (Paul) received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.” Acts 9:18

“…she (Lydia) was baptized, and her household…” Acts 16:15

“And the keeper of the prison… said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe… And he took them the same hour of the night… and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.” Acts 16:28-33

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 19:5

4. Jesus, our example, was baptized

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan” Mark 1:9

5. Because God has chosen baptism as the way we can change from being a sinner and become associated with Christ (become “in” Christ):

“many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ” Romans 6:3

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” Galatians 3:27

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water… he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5

6. Because without associating ourselves with Christ (being “out of” Christ”) there is no salvation for any sinner:

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” 1 Corinthians 15:22

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23

“For the wages of sin is death” Romans 6:23

“That at that time (before baptism) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” Ephesians 2:12-13

“This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:” Ephesians 4:17-18

Conclusion – A major condition of baptism

So there are the reasons for baptism but there is one huge condition. Belief. In all of the references from Acts quoted above the people who were baptized first beleived. Baptism is not for infants. Baptism is for those who can grasp a particular Biblical subject, the message of the Bible. What did they believe? The Gospel message. Jesus outlined this when he said to his followers:

“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark 16:15-16

But what exactly is the gospel message? Well it has two parts:

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12

So before one can be baptised one must first understand and believe the things concerning the “Kingdom of God” and “the name of Jesus Christ”. I would encourage you then dear reader to obtain this knowledge from the word of God, the Bible. If you need help this website is packed full of information related to those subjects (for example see the following articles: The Gospel », The Kingdom of God ») and you can always contact me with questions here ».

If however you do know the Gospel then what are you waiting for? The days are flying and we know that one day the Lord Jesus Christ will return to judge those responsible to the message of Gods word. Alternatively there is the sober thought that we are all mortal and that death could be around the corner for any of us. If we know the Gospel we will be raised to give an account of what we have done with such knowledge. On that day it will be too late for changes. There will be no baptism option. The door will be closed. So take up the opportunity to serve God now, before it is too late.

More on baptism here »